This transcript with our Jameson Files host Carrie Webber has been lightly edited for flow. To enjoy the audio, you can watch on YouTube or listen to our podcast on iTunes, Google Play, or Spotify.

Dr. Kahn’s Dental Successes and Challenge

Carrie:

Welcome to the Jameson Files. I’m your host, Carrie Webber, and it’s such a pleasure to be back with all of you for another episode. I am so happy today to be joined by a longtime friend and client of the Jameson Group, Dr. Donald Kahn from Long Island, New York. We had the pleasure of meeting with his partner, Dr. Angela Ferrari, and she’s a part of a previous episode. But today we’re going to talk about a new perspective from their amazing practice– Dr. Kahn as the founding owner of Kahn, Ferrari And Aldieri and his amazing story in his journey through dentistry. You know, for me it’s really about his amazing intentional approach to building a culture that matters in his practice for patient care, and to provide the type of dentistry and the way that he wanted to provide it. And that involved amazing partnerships that also led to a very successful transition as Dr. Kahn is now enjoying retirement after retiring this year. I’m so thrilled to have you with me, Dr. Kahn. Thank you so much for being a guest.

Jameson’s Influence on Dr. Kahn’s Professional Career

Dr. Kahn:

Thank you, Carrie. I really appreciate you asking me to join you for the podcast. Your organization, Jameson, has been a part of my professional career. It has been 34 years since I met Kathy at a study club meeting, and as other people can attest, she just blew me away. I realized at that point what my practice was really missing. So once again, I just want to thank you for having me on because you, and your mom and your dad, and the whole organization, and all the people that I’ve come in contact with through 34 years of practice management have been just wonderful. It’s made all the difference in the world, and it is the number one thing I can put my finger on in terms of why we were and are as successful as we are today

Carrie:

That is so kind of you to say. And I hope that you know that the feeling’s mutual. It is such a joy to have been part of your professional career. And I love that we are continuing on to be able to share so much about what you have learned, and the successes, and even the challenges that you’ve had over the years. What a gift to the dental community! So, as we start, you know that I really feel passionate about talking about building that thriving practice culture, and being so intentional about the evolution of your practice, and finding the right people to be a part of your journey with you. So I’d love for you to share with us, Dr. Kahn, a little bit of your story, a little bit of how your practice evolved over time, and some of those lessons that you’ve learned, and the things that you felt like helped you be so successful.

Dr. Kahn:

Oh, how long do we have for this project?

Carrie:

I’ll try to keep you under control. 

Keys to Successful Practice Management

Dr. Kahn:

I retired this year after 46 years of practicing. I just have one practice. I always focused on just the one practice. I always was in wonder of how people with multiple locations run their practices. It’s hard enough to run one practice correctly. And every single time I saw that, that was really what was missing. The one thing I always say, and I’ve talked about this, and I know that Dr. Hyman, who I know and I’ve spoken with, talks about the fact that when we come out of dental school, we barely know how to do dentistry, let alone how to run a business. They had one course for 30 minutes, and that was it.

Nobody even told us even how to balance a checkbook. And I’m being facetious, of course, but I mean, there was nothing about practice management. That’s it. So when I came out, I was lucky enough to buy into a practice that was existing. And, may he rest in peace, Stuart Glassman was a great mentor. He taught me a lot about dentistry. But, once again, he taught me about business, but not practice management. 

And then I saw a lecture that Kathy lectured. It was a study club. It was an hour-long lecture in a restaurant. And I said, that’s it. That’s the missing link. We really don’t know anything about practice management. So I spoke to her that day. She gave me a card. She was coming in to speak at the midwinter meeting– New York Greater Dental meeting.

And I met her there and we talked. And that’s when we decided that we were going to start utilizing her service. That’s the part that I think is important that people understand, especially today. I made a decision back when I first started that I was going to have a fee-for-service dental practice. I worked in a couple of clinics. I didn’t like the environment. I didn’t like the pressure. I didn’t like having to overwork and spend so much time on so many patients. I felt it was impossible to develop a relationship with these people. 

Being Committed to Patient Relationships 

So in doing a fee-for-service, yes, it’s very difficult in today’s world. I have lived through the seventies, and 1987, and 2007, and all the times the market changed, and dental practices always take the first hit because they’re on the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to importance when patients are struggling. But I decided that you don’t have to have volume if you have quality dental care. That is the most important thing. And I’ve said that for so many years. And then I realized that, yes, you have to be a good dentist; you have to practice well. You have to treat and do the things to the best of your ability, but successful dental practices have very little to do with that. And I’ve seen it all the time. And with your mom’s help, and Drew’s help, and the other people that came to the practice, we learned how to manage people. We learned how to treat people. We learned how to love. We learned how to touch. We learned how to connect with people.

That’s why the practice was successful. If people don’t have pain and their teeth look good, that’s really all they care about. When they come in and you have that connection with them, and then they send in a close friend, and then you have a connection with them–making that connection with them, putting your hand on their shoulder, asking them how they are. If they tell you something important about what’s going on in their life, make sure you make a note of that. Because the next time they come in, if you say, “Mrs. Jones, how’s your mom? The last time you were here she wasn’t well.” These are the kinds of things that patients really remember. 

I never appreciated that during the 46 years before I retired– the outpouring of love, and cards, and letters, and gifts about how I touched them. They talked about the dental care and how I took good care of them, but they talked more about the connection that I had with these people. 

And my staff will say, “You hug everybody.” “Yeah, I guess I do.” “Don’t you worry about that in today’s world?” No, I don’t. That’s just me. I’ve always been that way, and the patients appreciate that. You know, my last patient that was in the office when I retired, she came into the operatory and she said, “Dr. Kahn, can I give you a hug?” And I said, “Of course.” She comes over, gives me a hug, and she’s crying on my shoulder. 

Carrie:

I love that. 

Dr. Kahn:

And I go, oh, boy. And I turned to my head assistant Angelica, and I looked to her for help. And the tears are coming down her face. It wasn’t very, very helpful. Those are the kinds of things that we led by example. But anybody who is doing dentistry today that is not involved with practice management to make sure that the most important person in your office is the person who answers the phone. That first person can make or break you if they don’t know how to talk to people. If they don’t know how to turn people who call up and say, “You accept my insurance?” You have to be able to take that patient and turn them and explain to them why they should come in and see the office, and speak to the doctors, and see that what we do is different than the other 10 dentists down the street. I lived and died by those basic rules that you have to make that connection because those people will stay with you for life. And they have.

Carrie:

You know, it’s interesting, Dr. Kahn, that you say that you never really realized the impact of focusing on the patient and patient care until you retired. I find that interesting because from my perspective, the way patients are handled on that first telephone call is such a pivotal moment. And seeking out practice management and coaching support, it feels like you always knew that that focused intention on elevated patient care and building those relationships was the pillar that you wanted to build your practice on. So how did you make those decisions? How did you find team, and how did you instill that kind of mindset of that patient-centered, relationship-centered care throughout your practice, even in your partnerships, so that you could be a fee-for-service practice throughout your career, and so that you could build a patient family that was committed to you in your practice throughout all your 45-plus years of practice. How do you feel like that was centered in your decision making?

Building a Community of Like-minded Team Members and Partners

Dr. Kahn:

The hardest thing that we do is get good people to work for us. There’s just no doubt this was true on Long Island; I’m not sure if it’s the same in Oklahoma or in Dallas. I think finding the right people and starting off with the right people is important. Now, I got very lucky. I made a decision a long time ago that I did not want to practice by myself. I wanted to practice with somebody else. I had a senior partner when I first started. And it was very comforting to know that I could turn to somebody and say, “What do you think? How would you handle this?” Or, “Am I looking at this the right way? Do you see what I see?”

Because it’s just the way it was. So I made the decision that the most important thing to me was that I wanted to make sure that my patients were well taken care of after I was gone. This happened when I was 54, so I was well into practicing for many years at this point. I was very lucky with my partner Angela. She was a patient of mine when she was four years old. And she grew up with the practice. She would come in and work, she would do filing for us. And every time she would say, “I wanna be a dentist, remember, save a place for me.” And I said, “Okay.” 

She went to college and dental school, and then she came back. She had started working a little bit for me on Saturdays, but now she got her license. And I said, “Okay, when do you wanna start?” She said, “I’m ready to start. We only have one problem.” I said, “What’s that?” And she went outside the door and she pulled her husband in, her future husband, her fiance. She said, “This is Daniel Aldieri. He’s in dental school. We’re also engaged. We need a bigger office.” And that’s what started it. 

And right around that time, we started using Jameson Management to help me teach them what they have to do because, once again, I’ve learned a lot of things along the way. And, some of it was with Kathy before they came on. But then I brought Kathy back to start all over again because there are so many things that you need to do, and there’s 25 systems with a lot of people in the office.

I understand the systems, but I understand the reason why, and until you hear Kathy speak about the reason why, you don’t really understand what it is that you have to do. So I love doing Zoom and what we’re doing now, but I was blessed. I was blessed because she came to the office, and Drew came to the office, and people connected with her, and she roleplayed with them, and she made them comfortable doing it. If people couldn’t do it, we’d look for other people. And that’s how we found the right people. 

Now, my office manager has been with me for 38 years. She’s a Jameson disciple. She basically knows it. She does a lot of the selling of the big cases, and I don’t have to worry about a thing. I just say, “Okay, Christine, you’re up.” And that’s basically the way that it worked. 

She was a chairside assistant for 10 years. She wanted more. We moved her up to the front where she dealt with insurance problems at first because who better to deal with that than somebody who knows dentistry intimately. And it was a natural progression. And she is a gift. She truly is. She’s truly as close to being a member of my family as you can possibly have with somebody. 

But it was all about hiring the right people. And she did a lot of the hiring and getting the right people and training them. And you have to have the people buy into the systems. There’s a reason for the systems. They make the practice run smoothly, and there’s a rhyme and a reason for every single system, and you have to do them correctly.

Carrie:

Yes. I love that you say that you not only need to understand what you need to do for a practice to run smoothly and successfully, but the “why” behind those “whats”.

Dr. Kahn:

People need to get that.

Carrie:

Yes. You teach that to the people that join you in your practice, and you invest in them so that they can buy into the “why”, but they can also become good at the “what”. But also, you found doctors that also believed in the same philosophy as you and were all in on how you wanted to provide patient care and run the practice and then you found these team members that were all in too. And that coachability and that desire to grow and develop and be better makes such a difference in your team and helps you be as successful as you can be. I’m sure there were struggles along the way. You said that if they couldn’t do it, then you just found somebody else.

Dr. Kahn:

Exactly.

Carrie:

It had to be challenging for you.

Keeping Team Members by Offering them a Place to Thrive 

Dr. Kahn:

It is very difficult because people interview well, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they fit into the equation. Even today, you put an ad in and people call and you schedule a time for an interview and they don’t show up. That’s the nature of the beast today. It’s very, very difficult to get good people. But when you get good people, you better run your business well to keep those people. It’s not just a dental practice, it’s a business. And you have to provide for those people so that they know that’s their home, and they’re safe, and they have a place to be. That’s why I say you will always be successful in a private practice like this, because it’s a family. And we exude that to the people that come in.

And you can’t teach it. You have it or you don’t. But the people that work there, the people at the front desk, the little things that Kathy teaches. Somebody comes to the front desk and you stand up to greet them. How you answer the phone, how you talk to somebody, how you don’t leave somebody on hold for a long time. When you tell somebody you will call them back in 10 minutes, and you call them back in 10 minutes. All the little things of how to run a business. If you want to see how not to run a business, go to an intern’s business where there’s 20 interns’ names on the doors, and three people at the front desk, and they won’t even look up from their desk. And you can sit there for hours, or however long. We run the business to create a five star service. And that’s what we do every single day to the best of our ability.

Carrie:

I love this because one of the key elements for you building such a strong culture in your practice is instilling a sense of pride in the work that you do in your role in the practice. A sense of pride for answering that telephone, returning that phone call, checking that patient out in the most effective and elevated way, roleplaying those verbal skills. Taking a sense of pride in our work so that that exudes out to the patients, and their patient care, and their patient experience. And I love something that you said, Dr. Kahn, because the environment today has been for the last couple of years and continues to be today a hiring struggle. Being able to find great team is a big challenge for practices. But I loved what you said about when you do find them, you better have the infrastructure in place to help them thrive and be successful with you if you want to have any chance of keeping them.

Dr. Kahn:

And you spend countless hours training somebody; I never put it into dollars and cents. It takes three to six months with somebody good just to get them on board a little. You spend a fortune of money doing that, then somebody else comes along and steals that employee from you, and they’re well-trained and they’ve got it, and they’re going to offer them something more than you offer them and they’re going to leave. That’s not the kind of culture you want. You build a culture where people appreciate what you do and what they have, and that they’re not going to leave. And it’s not just a financial environment, it’s a wholesome environment. People see when there’s ills and there’s things that go on, they see how we all respond as a family.

Using the Morning Huddle Effectively

It’s always given me great pleasure to come into the office. The morning huddle is the best thing you possibly could do in a practice. I’ve been doing that for so many years. Kathy started it. The day will run smoothly if you run a good morning huddle. Ninety-nine per cent of the issues and the problems could be dealt with before they are really issues by dealing with them in an effective morning huddle. So that was a wonderful, wonderful tool, and we never miss it. And we start off every morning huddle with some type of a meaningful quote for the day. And everybody loves it. Everybody takes turns reading the quote for the day, and everybody feels a part of it. And it’s a team thing, you know? So that’s one of the things that we’ve done successfully.

Carrie:

What’s interesting is that the morning huddle is not a new concept. If you ask most practices if they know what a morning huddle is, they’ll say yes. And then even most of them would probably say they do one. Not everybody does though, and not everybody does a good one. 

So it’s not valuable to many, many practices because they’re not doing a good one. How do you feel like you were able to instill that very important key connection time with your team to make it an effective meeting to the point that you would consider it such a valuable tool? What do you think you did to start to bring value to that meeting?

Dr. Kahn:

Kathy had a checklist for a morning huddle, and some of the things we found were redundant or not really necessary and there were other things that were. I asked everybody to please come in early and be ready for the morning huddle. Go through your charts and bring up things at the morning huddle that really are important for the doctor to know, for the assistants to know. And we all share the charts and everybody goes around. This one only needs carbocaine, and this one, his mother passed away last year. We talk about all those little things so that when we go in we’re treating the patient. It basically gets everybody involved. And they saw the benefit. 

We talked about what we were doing this visit, what we were doing the next visit, if the financial plan was in place, all the quick things that you can hit. But the personal things that you got– Mrs. Jones’ husband passed away last year. When you do that and you put your hand on her shoulder and you say, “I’m so sorry how you’ve been doing the past year?” It means the world to these people. They don’t get that anywhere else. And that’s truly what we were trying to achieve.

Carrie:

I love that. What I always say about the huddle is that it’s a time to connect, a time to realign, a time to bring all hands on deck to make it the best day possible. And it’s really about choreographing a really successful day. And those best practices are the ones where everyone knows where we’re going, where we are now, and everyone’s on board to doing their part to help make things run as smoothly and successfully as possible. And for you, especially because you are fee-for-service and highly focused on five-star patient experience and patient relationships, all of those little things that you made sure to do in that meeting feels so special, so important because you were not just focusing on how we are going to meet our production goal, you were focusing on how are we going to connect with our patients today. 

I just love that about the intention and emphasis you put on making sure you are starting the day as a team in that way. And again, getting your team to see the value in it so that you’re not fighting against the resistance of them wondering why they have to be there early. It’s just as much a part of the day as anything else is. We start the day together getting everybody on the same page.

Dr. Kahn:

And also, when I left, there were the two partners, Dr. Ferrari and Dr. Aldieri, two associates, and one endodontist in the practice. Running a dental business is very stressful. We work our lives on 10 minute things. If you don’t have people knowing how to effectively schedule. If you truly don’t know how much time it takes for you to do a procedure and stay within the confines of what the time is that you’ve spread, so that you don’t run late, so that you take your patients on time. It’s a fine, well-tuned machine when it’s running properly, and right from the beginning to the end when the patient leaves, if it’s handled properly, your days go smoothly. Dentistry is stressful. I will tell you. It is a stressful occupation. 

Pursuing Excellence in Dentistry and Relationships

I’m going to diverge here because I remember something from when we were at the ranch. I read an article that Dr. Cothron wrote, and she talked about achieving perfection in dentistry. And I thought about that. And I’m not big on Facebook and everything, but I thought about that. Considering where she’s from and where I’m from, we were so different, but we were the same. And I wanted to say to her, and I’m saying it to her here, in the practice of dentistry, you can only try to achieve perfection. Nobody can achieve perfection in dentistry because it’s an imperfect science. We have to deal with dental labs, we have to deal with materials that are not necessarily accurate. So if you ever think that you’re really going to be able to be a perfectionist in dentistry, it’s going to drive you crazy. 

But what you can be a perfectionist about is building relationships, building love in the practice, building team that will be effective in dealing with people. You can be a perfectionist with that. You can really hit home runs with that, and it makes all the difference in the world. It really does. But she’s very special, so I’m sending my regards.

Carrie:

I love that you connected. So Dr. Kahn and Dr. Cothron were part of a leadership course. It’s always so special to have amazing doctors from all walks of life come together in that kind of sense of community and share with each other, grow together, and contribute. Community is so important for all of us. You, Dr. Kahn, are building a community within your practice with your team and your partners. You’re building community with your patients, building community with your dental peers like you do with other Jameson doctors. It’s so much about relationships. And I love how you’re saying, you can’t ever achieve perfection. It’s really more of a pursuit of your best.

Dr. Kahn:

Do your best every day.

Carrie:

Pursue excellence. And I always say that when you individually are committed to pursuing excellence, and you have a team that is committed to pursuing excellence, that’s when you really can experience professional fulfillment. Because you’re not fighting against a tide. You are all on the same bus going in the same direction, committed to pursuing excellence and making progress. And that’s really the best that we can ask of ourselves or of anyone else, bringing our best, being committed to pursuing excellence, and taking pride in our work and building community. 

So I feel like that could be a really great way to wrap things up here. How do you provide and build a thriving practice culture? Well, if you take it from the playbook of Dr. Donald Kahn, it’s to be committed to your patient relationships and to that patient’s experience, and to build community of like-minded team members and partners that also want to provide that kind of care. And your patients will come and stay, and they will love you and they will cry with you when your time to retire comes. But you leave a legacy that is so much about relationships and in that kind of commitment, you can achieve professional fulfillment. 

Dr. Kahn’s Plans for Business Mentoring

Dr. Kahn:

You know, it’s funny because people say to me, “All right, you are retired now. What are you going to do?” Well, what we just did here for the last half an hour is exactly what I want to do. I feel like I’m in a position to offer so much to people in terms of practice management. Kathy, and you, and your organization, you teach practice management, but I lived it. I was there in the trenches. So I feel I can really help people in terms of looking at their practice and saying, this is great, but this can be better. You can handle these things better in terms of how you deal with this and how you can improve your practice. That’s what I really want to do. I really, truly want to give back. 

I’m already speaking at a chiropractic group, believe it or not. They want me to come in and talk about practice management to them. I said, you know, professional businesses are professional businesses. Dentistry or chiropractor. It’s how you treat people. And I would love to go ahead and talk with them. I’ve been invited to talk in a couple of different things. So I’m looking forward to doing that. I’m excited about getting engaged here. I’m done with dentistry, but I am not the kind of person that will sit around and do nothing. I have to keep busy. And this is a great thing to do.

Carrie:

I love that. Being a mentor, giving back to the professional world that gave so much to you. I love that. And I love that you’re going to share so much of what you have accomplished and what you’ve learned. And you’re absolutely right. So many of the concepts that we teach and talk about on the Jameson Files podcast through Jameson Coaching, through our online learning platform, are founded in business concepts and psychological concepts and leadership concepts that go well beyond the confines of dentistry. These are business and leadership concepts that any business could benefit from. So I love that you’re giving back in so many ways, Dr. Kahn, and I love that you were a part of this Jameson Files episode. So thank you so much for joining.

Dr. Kahn:

Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed talking with you, and I’m sure I’m going to see you again in the near future.

Carrie:

Oh, I know you will, and for anyone that wants to reach out to Dr. Kahn, feel free to email us at in**@**sn.com. We’d be happy to connect you with him. I know he wants to support all of our dental community in the best ways that he can. So thanks to Dr. Kahn, and thanks to all of you for being with us during this episode. Be well, and we’ll see you next time.

Carrie:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Jameson Files. Visit us online. You can subscribe to this podcast on iTunes, Google Play, or Spotify. See you next time.